joey jojo

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Posts by joey jojo

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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  joey jojo

  Drearyweather, the research I did names all 4 of the men I mentioned as bishops, in various cities. Are you saying that being a catholic bishop today is a far cry from those guys in status, power and privilege? If so, I'm sure you're right, but they are still given the title of bishops today, and at the very least, were not merely commentators as the wt would have us believe.
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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  joey jojo

  Cheers,

  It's so frustrating the way the org takes a stance on a subject and then cobbles together a story to fit their narrative.

  The wts writers are at their devious best; misquotes, out of context quotes, diminishing or overstating the qualifications of quoted people as they see fit and of course, their absolute favourite, the use of ellipses.....

  They also manage to avoid the use of the word 'catholic' throughout the whole article, except to say, 'the catholic church had nothing to do with it.'
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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  joey jojo

  This is a topic that I find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the JW organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the Catholic church in its development.

  Here is the official stance of the org:

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15
  

  'The Roman Catholic Church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the Councils of Hippo (A.D. 393) and Carthage (A.D. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated. The opposite is true, however, for the canon was already settled by then, not by the decree of any council, but by the usage of Christian congregations throughout the ancient world.'

  
  

  After this startling proclamation, the org then quotes early church bishops in establishing which books were accepted as canon and being used and read.

  
  

  'Irenaeus argues, about A.D. 190, that there were just four Gospels. His term ‘fourfold gospel’ shows that he knew the Gospels as a collection, and he recommended these writings as the rule or canon of truth. (Against Heresies III. 11.8) Clement of Alexandria, indicating both the authority and collected form of the Gospels, states, “We do not find this saying in the four gospels that have been handed down to us, but in that according to the Egyptians.”—Miscellanies III. 13.'

  
  

  'The book of Revelation is attested to by a unanimity of early commentators including Papias, Justin, Melito and Irenaeus.6 (Fragments of Papias 8) It was rejected by some in the East because its teachings were unacceptable to certain schools of thought. But this did not disturb its general reception Even at this early date due regard was also paid to having a correct text, as Irenaeus informs us in referring to Revelation 13:18 when he remarks, “The number is thus found in all the genuine and ancient copies.”—Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius, p. 188.'

  
  

  'This leaves James and Jude and the epistles of Peter and John. There was never any difficulty with First Peter and First John, Papias and Polycarp being among the early testimonies for their authority. (Fragments of Papias 6; The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians 2, 7)'

  
  

  'Second Peter has been questioned most by critics, but Irenaeus uses it, (Irenaeus Against Heresies 5.23.2 and 5.28.3)'
  

  
  

  'In a letter written by Theodore of Egypt in the fourth century the apocryphal writings are referred to as “the lying waters of which so many drank,”7 and the Muratorian list speaks of them as gall which should not be mixed with honey.4 So the Christian community was careful to protect the integrity of its writings.'

  
  

  So there are a few quotes from this particular article, presenting the argument that it was God alone, through his holy spirit that chose the books for the new testament, all the while, relying on the evidence of the early church leaders as to which books were considered acceptable for christianity.

  
  

  Another deceitful tactic is to quote men like, Eusebius, Polycarp, Papias and Irenaeus as historians, or writers, when in fact they were all early Bishops of the catholic church.

  
  

  On the one hand, the org claims that the canon was closed and established before any church councils, or catholic intervention and yet, accepts the version of the bible adopted by the protestant reformation, which came 1500 years after Christ. To make it more confusing, some protestant bibles include the apocrypha.
  

  
  

  There is so much to this subject and I haven't even scratched the surface. Also, this has been discussed on this forum a lot and by people far more qualified than me, so I have included some links to some threads that have further information.

  
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/206535/how-when-new-testament-compiled
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/107694/bible-canon-muratorian-fragment-wtbts
  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
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  11

  I knew Abraham Lincoln

  by road to nowhere in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  my great granddad met abraham lincoln when he was a boy.

  when i was a kid i met him, he was 100+.

  so according to the generation teaching i knew lincoln.

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  joey jojo

  And because you are alive now, and are part of the same generation as Lincoln, that means Lincoln is a member of the Facebook generation.
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  34

  Reel to reel tapes and old Watchtower literature

  by lastmanstanding in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  it's been an emotional few weeks going through old watchtower literature, i mean old.

  i have saved many things, some you have never seen.

  particularly related to 1975, i have wts literature, even a big newspaper article about the 1975 prediction.. today, i started going through the reel to reel tapes.

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  joey jojo

  This is great information.

  Millions of of jws alive right now and still in their prime have witnessed the failure of the 1914 generation prophecy and its subsequent change.

  Despite spending countless hours representing Jehovah, and preaching something as truth to disinterested householders, they have no problem changing the information to whatever the gb tells them to.

  They are conditioned to respond to whatever the gb says with subservient obedience.

  Jws were delusional in the 70s and still are today.
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  23

  75th Anniversary of VE Day

  by cofty in

  1. social
  2. current

  today is the 75th anniversary of the end of wii in europe.

  they were a special generation who were literally prepared to give their lives rather than submit to fascism.

  millions paid the ultimate price.

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  joey jojo

  I wonder what that generation thinks of pronoun badges?
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  38

  The Motive of the Governing Body

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have been quiet of late, developing other interests, happy that there are a whole group of people producing great resources.

  however, i found some old emails from ray franz that promoted me to write an article that answers a question i regularly receive.

  it is in regards to the motive of governing body members.

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  joey jojo

  That's a really interesting read.

  Whenever you get a chance to really hash out the beliefs of the Wt with an active witness, at some stage they will inevitably fall back on the statement, 'where else would we go?', confirming this letter that they believe they are a member of the the best religion, despite the obvious flaws.
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  18

  Brainwashing left a stain

  by Fadeaway1962 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hi one of my jw parents died recently of old age , after decades of brainwashing of the dead are just a sleep and if we are good we would see them again in paradise .. i fully understand now you have one life and should make the best of it but finding it difficult at the moment to get my head around it .. it's just a bit of a rant but your the only ones that i can try and express how i feel and be able to understand after the years of brainwashing how it affects my thinking process.. thanks for any help and advice..

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  joey jojo

  Sorry for your loss.

  On the surface, the hope of an afterlife is comforting, and that is what pretty much every religion offers in one form or another.

  The cruel part about being a jw is that at some point, every jw believed they were never going to die. They were going to be a part of the special generation that lived forever.

  The reason it's cruel is because so many don't plan for anything, leaving themselves and, even more cruelly, their children unprepared and vulnerable.

  Since the 1870s, there have been quite a few of these last generations of jw's, who are no longer with us.
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  24

  Are Ex-JW's Suffering From Burn Out?

  by IWant2Leave in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the reason that i ask is, in the two years on this forum and you tube, i've seen ex-jw's either drop off entirely or make fewer and fewer videos.

  i know the emotional toll can be high.

  is that the sole reason, or is it cost (video) or do you think it's external pressure (legal or family)?

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  joey jojo

  There was a lot of big changes happening over the last few years that have settled down a bit.

  A few things I can think of is the change to the overlapping generation, the royal commission in Australia, sales of property in NY, leading to the move to Warwick, a major shift to downsizing the amount of physical literature, a move to videos and streaming, just to name a few.

  The org has changed faster in the last 7 years than in all its history.
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  38

  An emerging new global authority at how it will affect believers

  by Kosonen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  good day believing brothers and sisters, .

  i have to inform about latest information concerning the set up of a global authority.

  we have waited un to be empowered.

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  joey jojo

  I knew better than to reply to this post- but I did it anyway.